Interviuri Madrilene ( 3 ): Pasteur or Bechamp ? WISE after the event!

This entry was posted by on Saturday, 12 June, 2010 at
Mic …Manual de  Intelepciune Contemporana

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Lena , de ce crezi ca o anume persoana , absolventul unui colegiu sa zicem , ar citi pana la capat Interviul nostru “ 3 “ dedicat intelepciunii ? Crezi in adevar ca un plus de intelepciune ( metodologie non-cartesiana , integrativa = managementul optim al intregului ) poate juca un rol decisiv  in balanta succesului cotidian ( aflat clar sub semnul metodologiei cartesiene = manipularea  relatiei parte / intreg ) ? Iata, ne cunoastem de circa o luna de zile, te-ai ales cu ceva din aceasta contaminare cu viziunea integrativa a unei persoane despre care cu 5 saptamani in urma nu stiai absolut nimic ?

M.- Stop, Florin . Prea multe intrebari ma deruteaza. Cu toate ca  n-o sa-ti raspund punctual ci…global. Noi toti – cu sau fara colegii – avem nevoie de integralitatea intelepciunii  pentru a intelege adecvat, global lumea din jur ( mult mai extinsa, mai complexa si mai dinamica decat cea traditionala) si de fiecare data cand am incheiat lectura unui articol de pe siteul nostru ( de acum e al nostru, nu-i asa? ) m-am simtit mai bogata la un nivel as zice esential, ca si cum  cineva mi-ar fi  deschis usi si ferestre conceptuale nebanuite -sau aproape- prin care un aer cognitiv proaspat a dat navala facandu-ma pur si simplu sa…chicotesc de satisfactie.Doar un exemplu: conceptul de nelinearitate , pe care eu il receptasem exclusiv geometric , ca pe o ramificatie si atat, m-a ajutat sa-mi redefinesc epoca, cu noile ei promisiuni si riscuri, cu care nu te mai poti juca fiindca …bifurcatia sta la panda si te poate taxa in mod dur si mai ales ireversibil. Sunt absolut sigura ca lectorul nostru de azi nu se va opri cu lectura la jumatate fiindca imbogatirea dramatica de care vorbeam nu e deloc o iluzie! Eu te-as intreba mai curand de unde iti iei tu indrazneala inepuizabila, uneori nebuna – ca in cazul detasarii de Heidegger si Prigogine / Hegel – de a aborda problemele atat de dramatic si totusi firesc de parca ai sti dinainte ca rezultatul trebuie sa fie unul pozitiv? Cine iti arata drumul- lungimea , largimea, sinuozitatile dar mai ales adancimea acestui traiect conceptual “ de autor “?

F.- Sunt de acord cu tine : privita din afara “ obraznicia” mea metodologica ( pe care am avut-o cred dintotdeauna , inclusiv din timpul liceului, dar mai cu seama din facultate cand petreceam ore si zile intregi la Biblioteca Academiei sau cea universitara citind autori first class, nu doar straini! ) poate parea oarecum…misterioasa. In realitate nu e niciun mister : am avut totdeauna cultul si perceptia clara a noului semnificativ: citindu-i pe Prigogine , Heidegger , Bohm,  Blaga, Noica simteam ca se schimba ca prin minune peisajul conceptual uzual si eu odata cu el ( la unele cursuri universitare ca sa rezist citeam gazeta Sportul, pe furis , in schimb in orele de biblioteca doar vederea Sportului la unii colegi ma scotea din sarite ). Cateva “ secrete” exista totusi si, in continuare, ma voi referi la ele fara nicio retinere. De pilda, in elaborarea sistematica a “ categoriilor in sens larg “ am fost ajutat de un indicator extraordinar de directie made in China =TAO ( care-mi arata cam ca Steaua polara (deci nu in detaliu! ) incotro trebuie sa o iau: urmeaza natura! ) si de cativa indicatori de detaliu ( indicatori numiti de mine  “ target”, de tip busola ): Thomas Kuhn, lucrarea lui de prin anii 6o “ Structura revolutiilor stiintifice “ , in mod special conceptul kuhnian “ paradigm shift “ precum si filosoful suedez Peter Gardenfors cu lucrarile lui dedicate structurii ( reprezentationale ) a conceptelor , oferind, in mod deosebit, un framework- pilot pt. elaborarea …framework-ului integrativ atat de necesar cercetarii stiintifice contemporane . Pe Peter l-am urmarit pe viu ,cu mult interes in 1987 la Universitatea Lomonosov – Moscova, prezentandu-si comunicarea despre spatii conceptuale; la iesire , pe Colina Universitatii , in asteptarea autobuzului eram numai noi doi si…vantul moscovit, deloc protocolar. As fi vrut sa-l interpelez dar am ezitat, ne-am privit doar reciproc – el era intr-un trench alb , rascolit de vant – si atat. Azi imi explic retinerea mea prin faptul ca, pe atunci, operatia de restructurare categoriala pe care o derulez in prezent sistematic pe site-ul nostru era mai curand  intr-o faza de proiect ( publicasem doar “ Finalitatea in sens largextinzand conceptul si asupra sistemelor inorganice, aflate in situatia physis. Aici as vrea sa zabovesc un moment  asupra unui aspect metodologic deosebit de semnificativ mai ales pt. cercetatorii tineri: cum se poate iesi din mecanicism ?– mentionez ca  Scoala de la Copenhaga, cu toate inovatiile ei  oprite cam la jumatate, era/este inca  imbibata de  sevele mecanicismului , mai ales la nivel de intregi / totalitati; la  intrebarea – cheie formulata mai sus,  raspunsurile  autorilor de referinta difera in mod  esential: Whitehead a raspuns : prin organism ( abordare organismica ); Bohm -ramanand in fizica: prin holografie, Prigogine ( si Scoala Belgiana de termodinamica ): prin departarea de echilibru, etc., Heidegger ( si Scoala Daneza de filosofie ): prin  ramanerea in posibil,…ei bine, optiunea mea reprezinta o emergenta a tuturor acestor pozitii partiale : prin  SITUATIA PHYSIS Daca Peter ia cumva cunostinta de acest site, m-as bucura sa afle  ca de fapt este indiscutabil co-autor la serialul “ categoriile in sens larg”! Decizia mea de a ma dedica elaborarii  unor categorii noi, “generalizate” a avut la baza o alta detasare critica , in cazul acesta distantandu-ma ferm de un fizician – filosof cu totul remarcabil, l-am numit pe Werner  Heisenberg, care afirmase ( aproape convingator ) ca  atitudinea de modernizare cea mai indicata fata de  mecanica clasica ( si, corelativ, fata de  metafizica traditionala ) ar fi nu una de tip generalizare ( prin introducerea unor categorii noi ” in sens larg” ) ci una  de re-interpretare ( Umdeutung ). Punctul meu de vedere a fost – si a ramas –  diametral opus  si iata de ce:  daca ne-am limita  – cf. lui Heisenberg – doar la o re-interpretare a  conceptelor vechi atunci am promova o relatie logica  de…vasalitate intre vechi si nou, vechiul beneficiind de un statut  de permanenta si chiar fundamentalitate fata de nou! ( un bun exemplu il constituie  raportul  dintre macroscopic ( vechiul )  si…re-interpretarea lui = lumea cuantica ( quasi-inexistenta! ) in viziunea Scolii Copenhaga ).  Alegand solutia ” curajoasa” a  generalizarii, lucrurile se modifica radical :  prin generalizare ( care , incontestabil,  contine si elemente de tip Umdeutung ! )  semnificatia conceptuala  primara – de o   insemnatate  deopotriva  istorica  si practica –  isi pierde  fundamentalitatea devenind  o prima aproximatie, avand deci  o validitate derivata, locala. Dupa cum stii, in prezent lucrez  la un ” rethink ” de mare interes metodologic vizand chiar ...principiul lui Heisenberg ( relatiile  de incertitudine ) si pot sa precizez ca nu voi face aceasta reconsiderare  de pe pozitiile tipice ale unei re-interpretari… diplomatice ci voi incerca sa demonstrez ca acest principiu aparent infailibil apare tot mai ingust, devenind adesea irelevant,nefundamental. Am facut desigur uz si aici de metoda / schema  mea cu cei doi indicatori distincti: indicatorul de directie fiind  David BOHM – mai exact, lucrarea lui despre ” Wholeness ..” care mi-a furnizat frame-ul conceptual non-Heisenberg (  axat pe totalitati si nelocalitate dar, din pacate …nu si pe unde / waves ) in vreme ce indicatorii- target au fost alti doi mari fizicieni- filosofi :  Erwin SCHRÖDINGER si Hans – Dieter ZEH ( dedicati in mod neconditionat continuitatii ondulatorii  ) precum si un remarcabil coleg roman , fizicianul – Dr. Spiridon DUMITRU-Universitatea ” Transilvania ” – Brasov. Anticipand, voi arata ca pe bazele amintite  am introdus ( intr-un articol publicat la sfarsitul  anilor ’80 ! ) o distinctie- cheie intre doua forme de cunoastere: cunoasterea-  actiune ( care la micro-nivel  si numai acolo poate fi numita ” cunoastere Heisenberg” ) si cunoasterea – comunicare care fie nu perturba starea  ( cuantica ) a sistemului, fie se limiteaza la perturbari irelevante la nivelul totalitatii; analiza mea metodologica nu se va limita , bineinteles, la orizontul epistemologic.
M.– Cat de generala este utilizarea acestei scheme cu indicatori de directie si target ?

F.– Oricum ea constituie mai curand regula decat exceptia. Spre exemplu in cazul elaborarii lui Dasein in sens larg, indicatorul de directie a fost Scoala Daneza de filosofie ( Kierkegaard , Hoffding ) care a afirmat in mod repetat ca fiinta / fiintarea autentica este conditionata de ramanerea in posibil, ceea ce-i asigura fiintei abilitatea de a alege ; indicatorul target a fost in acest caz fizicianul rus Umov, care a statuat  prin 1900 rolul fundamental al alegerii / selectiei intr-o fizica a viitorului. Dupa constatarea mea, literalmente curajoasa ca practic toti fizicienii contemporani nu au ramas in posibil ( inclusiv  V.A.Fock care dupa ce afirmase candva – extrem de promitator pt. mine –  necesitatea reabilitarii posibilului  in raport cu  realul, ulterior s-a limitat la concretizari facil – secventiale de tipul …prognoza / fapt, omitand coexistenta inalienabila  dintre posibil ↔ real  ) nu am avut  altceva mai bun de facut decat …sa ma obraznicesc, subliniind de cate ori am avut ocazia  ca absolut in toate cazurile teoretizate  de catre realisti sub semnul FAPP, ceva exista inainte de a fi dat.

M.– Si ai facut-o fara ezitare!

F.– Sansa mea . In mod deosebit pentru cercetatorii tineri, dornici de afirmare , vreau sa subliniez necesitatea imperioasa a detasarii de clasici ( evident , dupa o asimilare acurata , fara graba a operei acestora ), pericolul mare – intalnit frecvent in cazul lui Noica, dar si la ” Heidegger” si ” Bohr/ Born / Heisenberg”  – fiind “ incremenirea in concept “, vreau sa zic asimilezi autorul in detaliu, dar il plasezi intr-un insectar de idei, in conditii sterile, lasandu-l fara viata, intangibil, sacrosanct,  fara metabole ( exact ceea ce ii reprosa Heidegger metafizicii clasice ), permitandu-ti doar aplicatii prudent -ilustrative  sau comentarii “ rafinate”, aparent savante dar care in fond nu intereseaza pe nimeni cu adevarat: mai bine citesti…Sportul, cel putin acolo e viata, lupta vie si nu o …orto- bazaconie , vorba unui fizician competent si onest – Prof. Dr. Gheorghe  Stratan .

M.– As dori sa elaboram putin in legatura cu “ incremenirea in conceptul “ timp.Aparent, dupa anexarea timpului la spatiu ( si a spatiului la materie ), datorata lui Einstein, nu mai era nimic de facut in fizica timpului decat sa masori duratele cartesiene cu o exactitate …paranoica. Cine ti-a sugerat drumul spre “ timpul in sens larg” ? In orice caz nu St. Hawking..

F.- Nu. Hawking – care este totusi unul dintre cei mai  mari fizicieni in viata – urmandu-l pe Einstein , ingroapa timpul, invitandu-ne la… funeralii temporale savante; pt. mine insa timpul a reprezentat dintotdeauna ceva foarte viu, esential pt. viata , pt. oamenii – flacara ( spre deosebire de oamenii-fum ).

In fizica de azi, contemporana , avem de fapt 2 fizici : una ergonica ( centrata pe energie , localizare , separabilitate si… relativitate einsteiniana ) si o alta fizica  neergonica, nelocala in care timpul “ cuminte “ is out of joints! Daca lucrurile stau in adevar asfel avem nevoie de 2 concepte de timp- un timp einsteinian si unul non-einsteinian = fundamental,  cu suportul lor fizic distinct dar inseparabil: real / potential. Cand Einstein se referea la Luna de pe cer care s-ar afla acolo indiferent daca este privita / masurata de un observator uman sau nu , el de fapt confunda ( eu cred ca deliberat, era prea bun fizician sa nu –si dea seama de confuzie! ) cele 2 fizici – cea locala si cea nelocala. David Bohm ( in imagine ) spunea ceva , undeva despre dorinta lui de a reintroduce timpul in fizica , un timp nou, viu, ne-parametric. NU a facut nimic concret in acest sens ( el ramanand doar un rebel din pdv metodologic , dar ce rebel ! ), ei bine , am incercat eu sa afirm  ca timpul are o natura duala, constructiv / destructiva , solidara cu agresiunea subtila dar implacabila a potentialului-posibil asupra realului, curbura t a timpului fiind data de valoarea locala a Ip / Ir : cand p excede r avem a face cu o actiune demolatoare, destructiv/ disolutiva , in vreme ce actiunea generativ/structuranta se manifesta cand r incepe sa devina  precumpanitor ; situatia p = r ar corespunde unei steady state. De notat ca , in conformitate cu logica noua de tip “ both / and “ ( in traducere : “ si / si “ ) cele 2 tipuri de temporalitate, respectiv cele 2 fizici, nu se exclud una pe cealalta, localul fiind doar un caz particular al nelocalului. De aici si pana la detasarea mea – temporala – fata de Heidegger nu a mai fost decat un pas.

M.- Eu am sincer convingerea ca punand in lucru aceste “ secrete “ integrative se pot rezolva , la un anumit nivel , nu tehnic ci metodologic, orice probleme dificile ale cunoasterii contemporane. De exemplu am discutat indelung ( pe durata a 5 cafele! ) impreuna despre disputa Pasteur / Bechamp ( Bernard ) despre rolul tot mai contestat al Germ theory si, corelativ, al  vaccinarii in societatea actuala. Cum poate fi explicata la modul intelept aceasta disputa , despre care , pe patul de moarte , Pasteur a concluzionat – poate generos dar oricum  neconvingator pt. mine si altii – ca… Bechamp avusese dreptate – mediul interior si nu microbul fiind de fapt factorul decisiv ?

F.– Voi aborda, in incheiere ( punand in lucru pt. prima data insusi conceptul viu / autentic / intelept de complementaritate , elaborat de mine anterior, vezi Sinteza cu Armonizator, pe acest blog ) aceasta celebra disputa  de pe pozitia armonizarii urmand ca pe viitor sa ne ocupam in detaliu de problema extrem de interesanta a legitimitatii metodologice a vaccinarii ca si a utilizarii antibioticelor. Vreau sa arat ca Pasteur a gresit de 2 ori privind raportul dintre microbi / mediu : prima data in timpul vietii cand a afirmat prioritatea cauzala  absoluta in patogeneza  a microbilor exogeni in raport cu mediul intern si , ulterior , pe patul de moarte cand si-a recunoscut prima greseala … comitand-o pe cea de a doua. Nerezolvarea satisfacatoare a acestei dispute de mare interes teoretic si practic , poate fi explicata prin faptul ca a fost tot timpul abordata in chip neintelept , exclusiv pe baza unei logici traditionale de tip Cartesian : either / or , promovand disjunctia exclusiva ( ori / ori ) ; un alt  exemplu, foarte asemanator, de promovare a ...neintelepciunii il intalnim in elaborarea   artificiala , fara comunicare intre  distincte,  a complementaritatii lui Bohr.  Noi doi, in discutia celor …5 cafele, am pornit de la cu totul alte premise decat Bohr et comp  si anume de la o logica sintetica, de tip nou = ” both / and ” mult mai generoasa  si de la echilibrele dinamice  p / a si  a/ r distincte dar inseparabile:
potentializare  ↔ actualizare    si  actualizare ↔ realizare
Astazi, rolul exterioritatii in mecanismul patogenezei nu poate fi negat : alimentele , chiar cele organice, vin masiv contaminate bio – fizico – chimic ( gandeste-te doar o clipa la absurditatea situatiei curente de a livra lapte organic sau apa de izvor in…recipienti de plastic, de a servi  cafea  fierbinte in pahare garantat …toxice sau, last not least, de a furniza sistematic si deliberat ( ! )  pe piata alimentara publica a carnii de pasare, etc. continand hormoni de crestere sau chiar superbugs ( gata selectionati! ) pe care nici cele mai performante antibiotice aflate in uz nu-i mai pot controla in mod eficient ); apoi nu poate fi omis riscul crescand care revine poluarii electromagnetice, medicamentoase, etc. Rezulta ca potentialitatea / actualizarea ii dadea 100 % dreptate lui Pasteur sa afirme nu caracterul absolut ci  prioritatea ( cel putin temporala ) a factorilor exogeni in instalarea bolilor. In adevar boala inclusiv cancerul , Alzheimer, etc.- exista in mod inevitabil la nivel microscopic,  intr-o forma potential – actualizata,  in fiecare dintre noi. Mentinerea intr-o stare dorminda ( latenta ) a bolii depinde insa de activitatea factorului  intern : mediul  ( adica, in principal, sistemul imun dar si aciditatea stomacala! ) determina daca aceasta premisa p/a se realizeaza sau nu . Aici avem insa de considerat  celalalt echilibru dinamic si anume a / r:
actualizare  ↔ realizare

Pentru a atinge realizarea ( dimensiunea macroscopica ), actualizarea ( dimensiunea microscopica ) are nevoie de doua conditii sine qua non : amplificare si stabilizare la nivel macroscopic. Ambele sunt “ asigurate “ de un sistem imun compromis, de un mediu intern saturat de / in toxine , de un organism subminat de stresul intens, permanent.

Pt. cei  interesati de schema conceptual-metodologica  prezentata   mai sus ,  ofer in continuare un scurt dar extrem de relevant pasaj din cartea de author a lui Mike ANDERSON  intitulata “ Healing cancer  from the inside out “ ( 2008 ) cu convingerea ca orice cititor de buna credinta va  recunoaste – cu satisfactie -cum   contributia  complementara  ( si nu opozitia, cum se afirma curent ) a abordarilor  Pasteur si  Bechamp  face posibila  atat  intelegerea cat  si controlul  eficient al  cancerului printr-o dieta specifica ( “ RAVE “ ):

” You can’t prevent cancer.You are going to get cancer cells in your body. The average adult gets at least one cancer cell in their body every single day. And there ‘s nothing  you can do to prevent  that from  happening . The question is not whether you get cancer but whether your immune system  is healthy enough to kill cancer cells and stop them  from multiplying. “

In concluzie , nu se poate vorbi despre “ dreptatea lui Pasteur “ sau “ dreptatea lui Bechamp / Bernard ”, solutia corecta a problemei patogenezei fiind una global- integrativa, anume  ca ambele parti au surprins aspecte –cheie , care nu sunt reciproc exclusive ci complementare. In alti termeni,  in aria echilibrelor dinamice de tip p / a Pasteur este  fara nicio indoiala ” acasa ” ,  dar in domeniul  a / r , distinct metodologic, cei care fac legea sunt Bechamp si Bernard. Voi incheia reiterand intrebarea ta: nu este oare extrem de actual si interesant de statuat cu intelepciune , intr-un context metodologic  corect si cuprinzator, nealterat de considerente  financiare sau de alta natura , care este locul / rolul  real al vaccinarii in aceasta problematica  subtila dar de  interes vital pt. toti contemporanii nostri – medici , pacienti, parinti?

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